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Hip and Thigh: Smiting Theological Philistines with a Great Slaughter. Judges 15:8

Friday, June 01, 2007

Reclaiming History

A non-review review

Around the time I was in college, maybe 1990 or 91, I had the privilege of hearing Vincent Bugliosi, the Charles Manson prosecutor and author of the book documenting the case, Helter Skelter, speak on campus about the JFK assassination. At the time I had no idea who Bugliosi was, but I was intrigued by the subject of the JFK assassination and the fact he had prosecuted Manson.

He only spoke for about 2 hours. I could have listened to him for 12 more. He was one of the most engaging speakers I have ever heard (including preachers). I sat riveted and unflinching in my seat listening to him do something I had never heard anyone do before: debunk every JFK conspiracy theory that had been cooked up and make a clear, compelling case for Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone. Oliver Stone's pretentious movie, JFK, had been released sometime before I heard Bugliosi speak, so many of the folks he was addressing had conspiracy theories fresh on their minds.

During the course of his lecture, Bugliosi mentioned he was preparing to put together a book on the subject of the JFK assassination and ever since then, when I thought about it, I would check Amazon to see if it had been released.

That was 16 or 17 years ago. Last week, after 20 years of research, Bugliosi published his book called Reclaiming History: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy

Its a million and a half words and 1,600 pages. The bulk of the footnotes are contained on a CD-ROM that comes with the book. It's also written in smaller than normal font point.

I plan to get the book in the future, but for right now, I have to content myself with listening to Bugliosi interviewed. There is one such interview I wish to draw everyone's attention to that happened on Dennis Prager's radio program May 31st. He had Bugliosi on for all 3 hours of his show. You can download each hour (34 minutes or so without commercials and top of the hour breaks):

Hour 1
Hour 2
Hour 3

When I heard Bugliosi was going to be on, I alerted one of my friends, a die-hard JFK conspiracy expert. He emailed me back a dismissive email brushing Bugliosi off as a hack. I just rolled my eyes. I wrote him back imploring him to at least download the broadcasts and listen to them, but sometimes you can't persuade those folks.

If you podcast them, they would make for some good listening this weekend if you are doing chores around the house.

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9 Comments:

Blogger Ransom said...

I put in a reservation for Bugliosi's new book last week or so, when I first heard of it, and I look forward to reading it.

Along the same lines, have you ever read Case Closed by Gerald Posner? That was a fascinating read, too. I remember first hearing Posner interviewed by David Brudnoy in Boston when the book was first out, in 1993. Predictably, all the JFK buffs called the show to challenge him, and he answered every one of their arguments with plain facts and logic. Before then, I was willing to concede that there was something funny about the JFK assassination. After hearing Posner - and after reading his book, a few years later - simple intellectual honesty forces me to believe Oswald did it alone.

4:13 PM, June 01, 2007  
Blogger markshriver said...

You believe one fairy tale after another. Your pastor, Macarthur, believes that our president is a Christian and now you believe that Oswald acted alone. And this guy, Ransom, thinks this is intellectual honesty? It's no wonder you can't discern the evil in your own church.

Try applying your "intellectual honesty" to these facts: JFK was shot 4 times. Once in the throat, in the back, in the back of his head and in the front of his head. Bullets were fired at him from at least 2 directions, from the front and back (this proves there had to be at least 2 shooters). The 4 bullets that struck JFK were fired in 5.6 seconds (none of this includes the bullet that hit Connally). Oswald was alleged to have fired a bolt-action Mannlicher-Carcano rifle. It is not possible for anyone to fire this 4 times in 5.6 seconds. Case closed. Oswald never fired any shots.

Just a question though for you "intellectually honest" Christians: if Oswald acted alone, then why have well over 100 witnesses to the JFK murder been killed (silenced)? And why when the gov't assassinations committee reopened the case in 1978 did they conclude he was killed in a conspiracy?

By the way, Manson also killed no one (Tate-Labianca murders).

3:41 PM, June 02, 2007  
Blogger Fred Butler said...

I am sure you listened intently to the entire interview I linked? Right? Bugliosi answered every one of these objections you are raising here and debunked every one of them. There wasn't four shots, there have been no 100 witnesses killed, and yes, Manson did not have direct involvement with those murders (he confessed to murdering other folks), but that is irrelevant to our discussion here.

What also may be helpful for you is to consider the 2nd hour of the Prager show I linked above, because he goes into talking about why people believe conspiracy theories in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You may find it revealing for your heart.

I would also recommend you read my Tin-foil hat theology articles linked in my side bar. I believe it is difficult for a committed, Bible-believing Christian to seriously maintain a conspiratorial mentality.



Fred

4:35 PM, June 02, 2007  
Blogger markshriver said...

I spoke facts and facts can't be refuted.

I believe it's hard to understand how a committed, Bible-believing Christian, who supposedly has the Spirit of Truth within him, keeps denying the truth as you so often do.

Oswald was a lone assassin, Macarthur isn't lying when he says our president is a Christian, Al Mohler is a Christian, etc.

The antichrist will soon take his throne commanding a one-world gov't. Do you think a one world gov't has formed without a conspiracy?

The whole world is a satanic conspiracy that is leading to the rule of antichrist.

You need to wake up and stop denying reality (facts). It seems that Fred Butler and truth are like oil and water.

11:40 PM, June 02, 2007  
Blogger did you hear that? said...

You don't have to just listen to radio or podcasts. Video from Vincent Bugliosi's book tour for Reclaiming History is available here: www.fora.tv/reclaiminghistory

8:54 AM, June 04, 2007  
Blogger Fred Butler said...

Mark,

I can't argue JFK "facts" with you. I don't have the time or willingness to chase every rabbit trail you could possibly lead me down. Additionally, it would be pointless, and my efforts would be best served attempting to bend a stump.

One thought I would like to follow,
You write:

The antichrist will soon take his throne commanding a one-world gov't. Do you think a one world gov't has formed without a conspiracy?

The whole world is a satanic conspiracy that is leading to the rule of antichrist.


Mark, do you believe God has full and sovereign control over all the events that transpire in his created world? That would include setting the bounds of all nations and determining their beginnings and ends. The Bible affirms this throughout, does it not?

If God has the absolute sovereign authority over the nations as the Bible proclaims, that would also include so-called conspiracy theories to usher in a one world government with anti-christ as the head, correct? Anti-christ would have no authority or ability to rule anything UNLESS it was given to him from God.

A couple of thoughts.

That means God, as absolute sovereign of His creation needs no conspiracy in place to accomplish His purposes. Hence, if God wants a satanic one world government in place, He will do it regardless of any conspiracy.

Second, an conspiracy to accomplish the establishment of a satanic, one world government means God is directing and orchestrating the events to accomplish its power. Standing against it would in fact be withstanding the work of God, would it not? I mean, I imagine in your eschatological belief system, you believe a satanic, one world government with anti-christ as supreme ruler fulfills biblical prophecy, particularly Revelation, does it not? You would essentially be standing against the fulfillment of prophecy.

Oh, and one final thought. Wouldn't the existence of a one world satanic government mean the coming of Christ is near? You should be working along with the conspiracy to quicken the coming of the Lord!

Fred

12:10 PM, June 04, 2007  
Blogger markshriver said...

God is sovereign. God has also allowed vast conspiracies to occur in this world. God's word says that in the end there will be a great falling away. Does that mean that I shouldn't tell Christians the truth? Should I hasten the great falling away because it's prophecy?

The antichrist can't come as long as the church is on earth. This means that the timing of Christ's return is up to the Lord.

I think somewhere along the way you were brainwashed into believing the notion that there are no hidden conspiracies. You are greatly deceived about this. Do you think people like Medved and Prager are allowed on the establishment media because they tell truth?

Is Grace Church now being ushered into the one-world church under antichrist? Most definitely it is. You need to wake up, but unfortunately, the "career Christian" at Grace will never tell truth or hear truth at the risk of his livelyhood.

10:36 PM, June 04, 2007  
Blogger Ransom said...

Markshriver posts a travesty of the facts:

JFK was shot 4 times. Once in the throat, in the back, in the back of his head and in the front of his head.

Try again. There were 4 holes caused by 2 bullets. Both were through-and-through, leaving one hole on the way in and one on the way out: the first entered his upper back and exited through his throat, the second entered through the back of his head and exited through his right temple.

Oswald fired three shots. The first one missed and hit the curb.

Oswald was alleged to have fired a bolt-action Mannlicher-Carcano rifle. It is not possible for anyone to fire this 4 times in 5.6 seconds.

Oswald's shooting feat has been repeated by expert marksmen. Not only was it not impossible, they managed to improve on his time. (Interestingly if you take a stopwatch to the part of the movie JFK where they allege it was impossible, they manage to simulate three shots in a faster time as well!)

why have well over 100 witnesses to the JFK murder been killed (silenced)?

Because it's been nearly 44 years, and people have this habit of dying, sometimes violently. There isn't some sort of magical shield that protects murder witnesses from death, and there's no more mystery surrounding their deaths than the 100-odd people Bill Clinton is supposed to have bumped off.

And why when the gov't assassinations committee reopened the case in 1978 did they conclude he was killed in a conspiracy?

Get your facts straight. The HSCA accepted the possibility that Oswald was part of a conspiracy, but they affirmed that he was the lone gunman.

9:55 PM, June 10, 2007  
Blogger Ransom said...

Ack. By "lone gunman," of course I mean that they affirmed the Warren Commission's conclusion that Oswald fired three shots, including the two that struck Kennedy. Not that there was no second gunman - they concluded there was a high probability of a fourth shot fired by a second gun.

10:02 PM, June 10, 2007  

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